Richard Clinnick (editor, Modern Railways) tweeted a fleet update on GWRs IETs with the cracking problem still ongoing....


So many years yet.....

 

https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=27903 - and we included "carriages" but not "vehicles".

 
I've noticed 'recently/a while ago' that there were a few 5 car units doing the rounds(more trains than usual, etc).
However, it is now more common to see 5 cars from Penzance to Paddington with no additional cars at Plymouth.
It is easy to say West Country services must be 9 or 10 cars at all times, but that means perhaps Bristol/Wales/Hereford lose out.
Whilst Hitachi might well be working quietly behind the scenes, I'm surprised that the 5 car issues have not been sorted at all.

Debate cars vs coaches! (I seem to remember we did have that debate a while ago).
The IET's are 5 car/coaches units, or a 9 car/coach formation anyway.

 
The Paignton service has been reinstated starting from Taunton, using a 3 car unit, according to Journey Check.
Running as 3C70 ecs from Bristol according to Traksy

 
I would say likely to do with the 07:03 being cancelled:

 
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 13:07
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 13:07 will call additionally at Castle Cary.
This is due to a fault on this train.

Just wondering why a problem will give an additional station stop?
I've seen it on other trips since IET's started.

 

 

In the early days of the project, many promises were made about the quality and reliability of these new ..............roads/hospitals/libraries/sports centres/airports/aircraft carriers/armoured cars/mail deliveries/bank availabilities/flood prevention schemes/electric cars/supermarket cashiers/Boeing 737s/etc/etc................

 

I thought that the price was relatively high, one criticism of the project was the substantial cost of the trains. IET=Incredibly Expensive Trains ! According to some critics.

In the early days of the project, many promises were made about the quality and reliability of these new trains.

 

We need something more robust, successful and enduring - like the APT perhaps?

 
Sadly as with so many things these day, IET built to a price ,not to a standard.

 
Whatever happens it’s down to Hitachi to sort out as part of the maintenance contract. 

Just like they are quietly doing with the cracks issue that people were getting excited about.

 
And that is just the parts you can see!!

 
It will be that salt ridden sea air on the Northumberland coast..... 

 
Aluminium is very vulnerable to corrosion especially if in contact with steel.
Did someone use steel fixings at the factory?, or subsequently during maintenance, either is a rather basic error.

Even different grades of aluminium alloy are liable to corrosion if used in contact with each other.

Electrical leakage currents through aluminium  structures can also accelerate corrosion. DC is worst.

 
Industry expert Gareth Dennis has posted on X some quite alarming photos of corrosion on LNER Azumas:

https://twitter.com/GarethDennis/status/1753413827067097297

 

Thanks for that.  Might explain the confusion.

 

Two full sized crew, or three small ones.
Catering crew, mainly, possibly hitachi fitters
Two hours at a time, without being let out for exercise.
Strike bruvvers !

 

How many crew can you get in a crew storage area ? what type of crew are stored there? how long can they be stored for? and has this been agreed with the Unions?

 
According to this, Unite accepted the pay offer:-

https://www.cityam.com/400-rmt-workers-at-hitachi-to-strike-on-saturday-until-1-february/

A Hitachi Rail spokesperson said: “We are disappointed at RMT’s decision to carry out industrial action.

“We believe the combination of last year’s pay increase, and this year’s pay proposal, is fair and highly competitive in the current economic environment. As demonstrated by Unite members accepting the same offer this week and ending their planned industrial action.

 

Not according to the official press release from UNITE:

https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2024/january/national-strike-by-hitachi-rail-workers-over-pay

 

There are 17 class 153 in store. One wonders if too early - I know the need for disabled loos these days but really wonder if 2 x 158 trains could run as 1 x 158 + 2 x 153.  Of course, whilst one wonders, one expects there's a very good reason why castles and 153s (and the 6 stored 156s) could be be used.

 
yes, indeed.

 

Also covering the shortage of other DMUs. Last Wednesday one of the Bristol-Worcester workings was being covered by a 5 car IET.

 

That dispute is only in Hitachi LNER depots, not GWR.

The short forms are all down to the withdrawal of the Castle sets & IETs being transferred westwards to cover.

 
Or that it even ran at all. Next Sunday it won’t be.

 
Journey check has now been updated to include the 1635:

I can assure the person writing this that the train was full and standing when it left Paddington.

 

Could well be linked to the Hitachi maintenance staff industrial action which started yesterday and runs until Friday.

 

I expect you will be told to be grateful they managed to find 5!

 
Stickers have finally started appearing on the trolley/urn store in the middle of the IETs.  Passengers have been confusing them for toilets since they were introduced!

 
Another poor customer experience for those aboard the 1635 Paddington to Plymouth 5 vice 10 and absolutely rammed according to my wife who’s on the train. First declassified. Not listed on JC as being short formed.

 

Yes

 
Answering my own question.  Looking at Realtime Trains it was 166 207 as far as Exeter St Davids and then 150 248 forward from there.   Thinking about it, are turbos cleared on the main line past Newton Abbot?

 
Was it even three coaches or was it swapped for two on the way?  I am told it was 150 248 that arrived at Plymouth.

 

Of course. One can only hope that said travellers were suitably grateful.

 
And Turbos routinely cover much longer trips such as Cardiff<>Portsmouth of course.

 
Not ideal no. But fair play to GWR for able to provide something for travellers from Westbury onwards.

Being a Turbo, there will of course be first class accommodation; just declassified.

 
Westbury to Plymouth in a Turbo??? Ouch.


17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth due 21:25 will be reinstated.

It will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at London Paddington, Reading, Newbury and Pewsey.

This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 9.

 First class not available. Catering is not available. There are no reservations on this service. Toilet facilities are reduced. Disabled toilet facilities are reduced.

 
Apologies, yes. Or no. It wasn't here, but on someone's vlog - Mark , and two other gents talking about trains.

 

I'm not sure if it was at our "Meet the Manager" but I have heard that said.  But then more are needed now that the HSTs have been reduced to just three daily diagrams.

 
Didn't the MD of GWR advise the forum "Meet the Manager" that they were in the process of arranging with Hitachi better availability of IET's!

 
The 1635 Paddington to Plymouth was only five vice ten, only went as far as Exeter, was absolutely rammed leaving Paddington and was not listed on Journeycheck as being shorformed. I know II has mentioned before you can’t rely on JC to give the complete picture.

I had elderly relatives on this train. Fortunately they just managed to get a seat, though not together and certainly not the ones that I had been booked for them.

The reason given was the usual ‘more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.’

 

I am told by a couple of passengers that the 10:20 was in fact formed of a 5 car IET.   Looks like there was a set swap at Penzance with an incoming service from Bristol Temple Meads.   The 5 car ran all the way to London with no change of train or attachment at Plymouth.   

As reported on other occasions this wasn't updated on Journeycheck.

 
Of course, residents in Melksham would be delighted to have a regular 2 car train daily with a half hour service!
So Cornwall shouldn't complain.

 
Lower availability today in Cornwall
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:55
Facilities on the 05:03 Penzance to London Paddington due 09:55.
Will be formed of 5 coaches instead of 10. There are no reservations on this service. (No added coaches at Plymouth).
Also
07:12 Plymouth to Penzance due 09:19
07:12 Plymouth to Penzance due 09:19 will be reinstated.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 9. First class not available. There are no reservations on this service.
This turns into
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:27
Facilities on the 10:20 Penzance to London Paddington due 15:27.
This is due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.
Will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 9 to Plymouth. First class not available to Plymouth. There are no reservations on this service to Plymouth.

 

No, that’s the IET that failed at Teignmouth Tuesday evening on 1C92

 

No that’s a different IET.

Full story here  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=28017.0

 
The IET which failed at Teignmouth this morning seems to have been moved to Newton Abbot platform 1 and is currently sitting there with a headcode 5H17. Is this saying what I think it means?!

 
Did they really spell 'lose' and 'losing' with two 'o's?

 

Indeed as reported on Dawlish Today

https://www.dawlish-today.co.uk/news/storm-babet-causes-chaos-on-the-dawlish-to-teignmouth-railway-line-644760

2am ouch!

 

A bit like the "wrong sort of snow" then  ? 

 
At least three IET sets succumbed to the Dawlish/Teignmouth waves thanks to Storm Babet.

 
Unfortunately 06:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29 has been cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

 
Engine reliability and general fleet availability has now improved significantly.  Some days have seen more units available than needed...though not always in the right places to avoid the odd short form.

 

What, a general election?

 


Hmmm ... invite sent.   Didn't say "no" - didn't even acknowledge ...

I have a better idea ...

 
Quite possibly the same stock.

 

+1. That feeling with certain IET trains that you're not riding *in* something, more like riding *on* it.

Mark

 

I had a very rough ride on a Paddington to Worcester IET just under a month ago.  I didn't think it was wheelflats, but something weird with the leading bogie, which definitely was hunting.  Not a nice experience, with fingers crossed that the wheel flanges managed to stay on the right fact of the rail

 

Or if it was running late, the Golden Behind.

 
Introduced in 1964 between Plymouth and Paddington, after Drake’s ship that left from Plymouth. Later extended to Penzance

 
AFAIK, the Golden Hind has always been an early evening departure from Paddington to Penzance, the last through train to Penzance that runs every weekday, and an early morning departure from Penzance to London.
Timings have varied a bit over the years, but generally the first direct up train and last direct down train that runs every weekday, excluding the sleeper.

 

I don’t think the 10:53 from Paddington to Worcester has ever been called ‘The Golden Hind’. 

 
Oh dear, that would never have been  allowed in the olden days when that  train was the Golden Hind!

 
Two of the last IETs I've taken have been worryingly juddery - sufficiently so that in both cases I've flagged it to the train manager.

This morning I was on the 10.53 out of Paddington in Coach D, and there were continuous judders all through the carriage. I first noticed it around the Heathrow junction, but it continued pretty much all the way through to Oxford, and then became more intense between Oxford and Hanborough again.

Not sure if these are just the expected autumn wheel flats (I'm not any sort of engineer let alone a train engineer!) but I don't recall noticing anything this bad on any other train.

 

I'm not sure that the average passenger gives a toss about train length. It's much for about frequency, reliability,  reasonable journey time, and some comfort, including enough capacity to be comfortable.

I grumbled on Saturday about a 2 car being sent out on our 09:10 - first southbound train of the day. The grumble was not because of the length as such - it was because families could not sit together, children were on knees and some were standing rather together rather than jamming themselves into the middle seats of separate 3s.  Give us an hourly 2 car each way to spread the load and we'll be happy for a short while (except it will be so popular that will become overcrowded!


We tend to decry the negative changes for years but celebrate the positive ones for just days, though.  And there are times that "keeping up the pressure" appear to achieve nothing but for all we know we may have prevented a negative change.


Agreed; I have been scratching my head look at how we can help and can't come up with much.  Even strongly showing we want the issues solved can be counterproductive because the sides (yes, I have said "sides") see that as support for the railways and they see themselves as the railway angels or saviours.


Agreed;  I think it is industry wide though!


[/quote]

 

I do not believe that there is much WE can do. The IETs are unreliable, and seem unlikely to improve much for some years at least. I appreciate that some actually like them and blame the endless short formations on things other than the trains, but from the point of view of the average passenger, new trains=shorter trains.
Passenger comfort and facilities are a bit subjective, but are generally accepted to be inferior to the previous trains.
As a passenger group, we can "keep up the pressure" on GWR, but I doubt that much will be achieved.

The present industrial disputes will eventually end, but I do not believe that we, as a passenger group can do much to accelerate the process.

And after the strikes end, we will face the normal staff shortages. GWR, and before them FGW have proved incapable of or unwilling to recruit enough staff to run reliably run a full service. This has been the case for YEARS and any near term improvement seems most unlikely.

 
Anyone know where things are with regard to the number of units still waiting for remedial work following the cracks issue?

 
There’s certainly a bit of a crisis of availability at the moment.  No slack in the system (as Mark Hopwood confessed in the ‘Meet The Manager’) and further overall stock reductions to come shortly from the mandate of the DfT does not bode at all well longer term, even when IET availability improves.

 
More than 20 Cl80x out of action yesterday due to repairs with 9 Castles working instead of the planned 7.
Source Richard Clinnick on Twitter/X
https://x.com/clinnick1/status/1693899436076794039?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

 
Several reduced formations to/from Cornwall today.
Also many stopping/starting short in Devon and Cornwall.

 
Seeming lots of 10 and 9 cars down to 5 cars today.  I wonder what the maths is - are more 9 cars out of service than 5 cars, or is it just an arithmetic quirk?  Are there trains that are running as 9 cars when they would normally be 5, but not being reported? The fleet looks like:

36 - 5 car 800/0 800-001 to 800-036
22 - 5 car 802/0 802-001 to 802-022

21 - 9 car 800/3 800-301 to 800-321
14 - 9 car 802/1 802-101 to 802-114

 
We had a running commentary from a concerned parent waiting at Exeter St David's for their charges who were on 1C78.

Apparently, they were told to decamp at Westbury and board 1C85 (1436 PAD-PGN) which was formed of 5-car 802016, which fairly obviously could not cope with the additional load. After a further delay, an empty 9-car turned up to continue 1C78 onto Plymouth**.

Edit....
** It appears that 1B16 (1318 PAD-CDF), formed of 9-car 800312, was caped at Swindon 'due to an issue with the train crew' and the unit sent to Westbury as 5C78 to replace the stricken 800316 (which was eventually sent to Stoke Gifford)

 

Yes, please disregard my previous post - I put two and two together and got five, rather than nine! :-)

 
1C78 definitely 9 cars passing Dawlish.

 
Ugh, so the 1100 pax are now in those 5cars!

 
Looks like it was replaced with 800312 on 5Z78 from Swindon.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:86585/2023-08-14/detailed#allox_id=0

 

It was a 10-car unit, so the rear one (which is the one that had the pan damaged) would have been detached at Westbury.

[EDIT] Please disregard this post.

 
1C78 currently at Exeter St Davids (16:42). Presumably the set was switched at Westbury, but how was this achieved?

 
What remains of the pant probably neds tying/strapping down before being allowed to move further

 
800316 is now (at 1605) showing as 5C78 FAIL at Westbury P1.  Perhaps it is quite likes Westbury and doesn’t want to leave even if it is cluttering up the station.  It is/was called “#Lionesses” – is this a bad omen?

 
Probably coz they are all going to stations west of Exeter....

 

The good people of Westbury will be very sad to read that view of their town ...

 

5. Build some proper bi-mode intercity trains that work reliably on diesel or electric power. Word the contract carefully in order that what looks like abject failure cant be considered as a great success by the supplier.

 
 … and 5C78 (formerly known as 1C78) is still at Westbury with a RTT path at 1520 to Stoke Gifford.  Hope they clear the debris off the roof before it gets to Bristol Parkway. 

 

That's quite the observation...

Mark

 
Journalist Jacquelin Magnay has been tweeting from the stricken train:

https://twitter.com/jacquelinmagnay

As well as posting a photo of overcrowded conditions on board she said "Our stranded #GWR train expected in Westbury in an hour, or so, where we can get off, many miles from where anyone wants to be. Something on top of our train still hitting the bridges. Oh joys"

 

I can feel a poll coming on ... to avoid such incidents (I recall one at Blackfriars) should we:
1. Electrify complete routes
2. Stop all trains to change from electric to off-wire diesel traction
3. Convert all overhead equipment to 3rd rail which would not have this problem
4. Revert to steam haulage as standard.
Note to anyone who wonders about me - such a poll would go in "The Lighter Side" but I actually fancy the idea of electrifying complete routes.

 
IET caught with its pants up today, 14th August 2023.

1C78 1103 PAD-PLY is at a stand just outside Newbury after its pantograph failed to drop at the end of the OLE section and subsequently hit a bridge and was ripped off.

 
Problems with IETs continue, with short formations being routine.
I have previously felt that this is due to defective design or manufacture.

However else where on these forums, at least one well informed member has stated that they are meeting the required levels of availability.

See here for example


   
"Re: Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion
« Reply #2048 on: Yesterday at 03:57:43 pm »
Reply with quoteQuote
Quote from: broadgage on August 12, 2023, 02:34:12 pm

So nothing much can be done ? And we are simply stuck with new shorter trains for about another 20 years.
That will help encourage flying and driving, and sod the climate emergency.

This is your question to which I replied that the taxpayer would pay (for longer trains it seems your wish was for). Hitachi completed the contract as stated - otherwise they *would* be rectifying."


So what went wrong ?
Years ago I forecast that that the new trains would be shorter, and they are often shorter.
Was the Hitachi contract so badly drafted that the present shambles counts as meeting the requirements of the contract ?
Or was the intention that the new trains would be shorter.

The present situation is a powerful deterrent to use of GWR services. Reserving a seat does not much help as reservations are voided on half length trains.

BTW, my wish for "longer trains" was for trains of the full planned length, 9 car or 5+5 car. Not for longer than that. At present a great deal of money has been spent to achieve shorter trains.

 
Yes it did terminate at Reading and formed the 13.03 Paddington to Plymouth which started at Reading leaving 23 minutes late. Probably left late due to having to ram everyone onto a five coach IET along with all their luggage 

 

From RTT it looks like it was terminated 48 late at RDG:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P75267/2023-08-04/detailed#allox_id=0

 
This service is making extra stops and picking up passengers (somehow I don’t think it will) from the cancelled 08:35 Plymouth-Paddington. What a time for this to be a 5 vice 10 if JC is correct 

 


Having checked around with the moderator / admin team (onto whom the organising would fall), we have gone ahead and sent an invite.  It was actually quite a useful exercise in defining the Coffee Shop to an expert newcomer.

 

LNER have two sets with an engine isolated, but as IndustryInsider said, they spend most of the time under the wires.

You notice 1 engine out on the steeper gradients on the network and where linespeeds are 100/110mph.

 

Their diesel mileage percentage must be quite a bit lower. 

You don’t really notice an engine out on a 9 or 10-car service anyway though.  You do notice if two or more are our, but that’s fairly rare IME.

 

Wondering if LNER are also experiencing this, with theirs.

Mark

 
Yup, my point exactly!

 

To be fair, as a politician, he’d be incapable of providing a simple yes or no answer!!

 
Go on, he can only say no. I'd be interested in reading anything more he had to say.