| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:47, 18th May 2026 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the BBC:
Avanti West Coast to cut services to save money

The company usually runs 248 daily services on the affected routes - Image © Avanti West Coast
One-in-seven rail services will be cut on Avanti West Coast's busiest routes following a government request to reduce expenditure, the operator has said.
About 38 daily weekday services will be removed from timetables during a six-week period from 20 July. The company usually operates 248 daily services on the affected routes, which connect London Euston with Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester, via the West Coast Main Line.
Avanti West Coast said it had proposed removing some services with lower demand in response to a request from the Department for Transport (DfT) to cut costs. A spokesperson for the DfT said: "This will save taxpayers money while still meeting passenger demand for seats."
The spokesperson also said: "The Secretary of State has accepted Avanti's short-term proposals to amend its weekday summer timetable, when passenger numbers are considerably lower and many trains run with large numbers of empty seats."
Avanti West Coast - a joint venture between FirstGroup (70%) and Italian state operator Trenitalia (30%) - predicted the move would cause minimum disruption to passengers and not reduce revenues.
All train services operated under DfT contracts are being transferred to public ownership. But companies such as Avanti West Coast - which has yet to lose its services - have their finances heavily influenced by the DfT.
This is because of contracts introduced in March 2020 at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.
An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said: "From 20 July to 28 August we will be operating an amended timetable between London and Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester on weekdays.
To ensure minimal impact to those travelling between the affected dates, these changes will only affect routes on which we operate more than one train per hour - during typically less busy periods of the day - maximising alternative journey options. We'd like to encourage customers planning to make journeys during this time to plan ahead, and thank them for their understanding."
Affected services are being removed from online ticketing services before becoming available for purchase.
Avanti West Coast temporarily slashed its timetables in August 2022 in an attempt to reduce short-notice cancellations after a sharp decline in the number of drivers voluntarily working overtime on rest days during industrial disputes across Britain's railways. It has since boosted its capacity beyond pre-coronavirus levels.
The operator said the latest reduction in services was not because of a lack of resources.
Office of Rail and Road figures show government funding of the rail industry's operations was £11.9bn in the year to the end of March 2025. That was down 7% from £12.7bn during the previous 12 months, but remained 47% above the total of £8.1bn in 2019/20. Last year's spending represented 46% of the industry's costs, with fares revenue funding the vast majority of the rest.
In January 2024, Avanti West Coast apologised after taxpayer funding was described as "free money" during an internal meeting with managers. Novara Media, which first reported the incident, published an image showing a presentation slide with the title: "Roll-up, roll-up -get your free money here!" Another slide explained how train operators are paid bonuses by the government even if services are not run completely to schedule, under the service quality regime.

The company usually runs 248 daily services on the affected routes - Image © Avanti West Coast
One-in-seven rail services will be cut on Avanti West Coast's busiest routes following a government request to reduce expenditure, the operator has said.
About 38 daily weekday services will be removed from timetables during a six-week period from 20 July. The company usually operates 248 daily services on the affected routes, which connect London Euston with Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester, via the West Coast Main Line.
Avanti West Coast said it had proposed removing some services with lower demand in response to a request from the Department for Transport (DfT) to cut costs. A spokesperson for the DfT said: "This will save taxpayers money while still meeting passenger demand for seats."
The spokesperson also said: "The Secretary of State has accepted Avanti's short-term proposals to amend its weekday summer timetable, when passenger numbers are considerably lower and many trains run with large numbers of empty seats."
Avanti West Coast - a joint venture between FirstGroup (70%) and Italian state operator Trenitalia (30%) - predicted the move would cause minimum disruption to passengers and not reduce revenues.
All train services operated under DfT contracts are being transferred to public ownership. But companies such as Avanti West Coast - which has yet to lose its services - have their finances heavily influenced by the DfT.
This is because of contracts introduced in March 2020 at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.
An Avanti West Coast spokesperson said: "From 20 July to 28 August we will be operating an amended timetable between London and Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester on weekdays.
To ensure minimal impact to those travelling between the affected dates, these changes will only affect routes on which we operate more than one train per hour - during typically less busy periods of the day - maximising alternative journey options. We'd like to encourage customers planning to make journeys during this time to plan ahead, and thank them for their understanding."
Affected services are being removed from online ticketing services before becoming available for purchase.
Avanti West Coast temporarily slashed its timetables in August 2022 in an attempt to reduce short-notice cancellations after a sharp decline in the number of drivers voluntarily working overtime on rest days during industrial disputes across Britain's railways. It has since boosted its capacity beyond pre-coronavirus levels.
The operator said the latest reduction in services was not because of a lack of resources.
Office of Rail and Road figures show government funding of the rail industry's operations was £11.9bn in the year to the end of March 2025. That was down 7% from £12.7bn during the previous 12 months, but remained 47% above the total of £8.1bn in 2019/20. Last year's spending represented 46% of the industry's costs, with fares revenue funding the vast majority of the rest.
In January 2024, Avanti West Coast apologised after taxpayer funding was described as "free money" during an internal meeting with managers. Novara Media, which first reported the incident, published an image showing a presentation slide with the title: "Roll-up, roll-up -get your free money here!" Another slide explained how train operators are paid bonuses by the government even if services are not run completely to schedule, under the service quality regime.
| Re: Labour threatening to strip Avanti West Coast of their franchise Posted by ChrisB at 16:32, 12th June 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
You're wrong I believe - I thought that they'd be letting contract expire & moving the services supplied to Office of Last Resort effectively - leaving the TOC with no contract & therefore no trains to run, TUPEing staff across.
Which is what they'd do if Avanti were in breach of contract....simply terminate the contract but earlier than if it expired. There's no way they'd leave all the staff with Avanti such that they'd be let go....they'd need to TUPE them to keep the trains running.
Rather than actually nationalising the company which would mean compensating the shareholders. No chance the public would agree to that....
| Re: Labour threatening to strip Avanti West Coast of their franchise Posted by TaplowGreen at 16:27, 12th June 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Huh? They've said they'll renationalise anyway....so just a few months earlier really isn't a new policy
I thought they said that, as each contract expires, they'd take that TOC into public ownership. So, not quit the same.
You're right, it very much isn't - in this case Labour are suggesting that Avanti may have breached their contract - I am sure m'learned friends will be readying themselves to pour more taxpayers money away on the inevitable legal battle if that comes to pass.
| Re: Labour threatening to strip Avanti West Coast of their franchise Posted by PhilWakely at 16:17, 12th June 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Huh? They've said they'll renationalise anyway....so just a few months earlier really isn't a new policy
I thought they said that, as each contract expires, they'd take that TOC into public ownership. So, not quit the same.
| Re: Labour threatening to strip Avanti West Coast of their franchise Posted by ChrisB at 14:01, 12th June 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Huh? They've said they'll renationalise anyway....so just a few months earlier really isn't a new policy
| Labour threatening to strip Avanti West Coast of their franchise Posted by TaplowGreen at 12:59, 12th June 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
........an interesting start...........
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsbirmingham/labour-threatens-to-strip-woeful-avanti-of-west-coast-main-line-rail-franchise-if-it-wins-election/ar-BB1o59q8?ocid=BingNewsSearch
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by stuving at 23:24, 16th January 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Avanti say sorry after leaked memo cheers "free money "
Bit of a PR own goal reported on the Beeb here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67997916
Bit of a PR own goal reported on the Beeb here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67997916
I can't see how an internal presentation counts as PR. And if it's accidentally become de facto PR, reading the quotes I'm baffled that it's seen as bad or in some way unacceptable. It's using a bit of irony to make the point to management that the so-called incentive regime is too lax, so the payments should not be taken as evidence of good or even adequate performance.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by johnneyw at 22:22, 16th January 2024 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Avanti say sorry after leaked memo cheers "free money "
Bit of a PR own goal reported on the Beeb here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67997916
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Oxonhutch at 17:04, 10th June 2023 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Got one of their trains from Euston-Manchester and back Mon/Thurs this week - was quite impressed - both trains on time - OK I was in First class both ways which probably helped but on the return journey especially the train was spotless and I got a decent lunch on board too.
They seem to be back to pretty much a full service now although Euston is as grotty as ever.
They seem to be back to pretty much a full service now although Euston is as grotty as ever.
Good to hear, as I have been avoiding them because of their grotty service and trains. Might attempt them again next time up to the Red Rose county.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by TaplowGreen at 16:54, 10th June 2023 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Got one of their trains from Euston-Manchester and back Mon/Thurs this week - was quite impressed - both trains on time - OK I was in First class both ways which probably helped but on the return journey especially the train was spotless and I got a decent lunch on board too.
They seem to be back to pretty much a full service now although Euston is as grotty as ever.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by ChrisB at 10:13, 20th March 2023 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Contract extended by another 6 months to October 15th, plus new MD (another ex-GWR)
From The BBC
Rail operator Avanti West Coast has had its contract extended for another six months after making improvements, the government has said.
The firm has previously been heavily criticised over reliability and punctuality, with calls for it to lose the franchise.
Avanti cut services and ticket sales last summer amid a staffing crunch.
The Department of Transport said its contract would now run until 15 October.
Avanti's current contract was due to finish at the end of this month after it was given a temporary six-month extension last October and told to urgently improve.
The operator, which runs trains to Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, north Wales, Glasgow and Edinburgh, slashed its timetable last summer after drivers stopped doing overtime and passengers suffered widespread disruption.
The government had warned the firm that its contract could have been withdrawn.
Transport Secretary, Mark Harper said: "The routes Avanti West Coast run are absolutely vital, and I fully understand the frustrations passengers felt at the completely unacceptable services seen last autumn.
"Following our intervention, Rail Minister Huw Merriman and I have worked closely with local leaders to put a robust plan in place, which I'm glad to see is working."
Avanti's parent company First Group said the current arrangements had been extended "under broadly the same terms and conditions".
Chief Executive Graham Sutherland said: "We are working closely with government and our partners across the industry to deliver a successful railway for our customers and communities.
"Performance at Avanti is steadily improving and, since the introduction of the new timetable in mid-December, the number of services has increased by more than 40% compared to last summer, with more seats and better frequencies."
It introduced a new fuller timetable in December. Earlier this month the transport secretary said Avanti had been delivering a better service on weekdays.
More than 5% of Avanti's services were cancelled in the four weeks to 3 March, down from 10.5% in the four weeks to 4 February and 18.9% in the four weeks to 7 January.
First Group also said a new managing director for Avanti had also been appointed, Andy Mellors.
The previous boss left last September.
The firm has previously been heavily criticised over reliability and punctuality, with calls for it to lose the franchise.
Avanti cut services and ticket sales last summer amid a staffing crunch.
The Department of Transport said its contract would now run until 15 October.
Avanti's current contract was due to finish at the end of this month after it was given a temporary six-month extension last October and told to urgently improve.
The operator, which runs trains to Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, north Wales, Glasgow and Edinburgh, slashed its timetable last summer after drivers stopped doing overtime and passengers suffered widespread disruption.
The government had warned the firm that its contract could have been withdrawn.
Transport Secretary, Mark Harper said: "The routes Avanti West Coast run are absolutely vital, and I fully understand the frustrations passengers felt at the completely unacceptable services seen last autumn.
"Following our intervention, Rail Minister Huw Merriman and I have worked closely with local leaders to put a robust plan in place, which I'm glad to see is working."
Avanti's parent company First Group said the current arrangements had been extended "under broadly the same terms and conditions".
Chief Executive Graham Sutherland said: "We are working closely with government and our partners across the industry to deliver a successful railway for our customers and communities.
"Performance at Avanti is steadily improving and, since the introduction of the new timetable in mid-December, the number of services has increased by more than 40% compared to last summer, with more seats and better frequencies."
It introduced a new fuller timetable in December. Earlier this month the transport secretary said Avanti had been delivering a better service on weekdays.
More than 5% of Avanti's services were cancelled in the four weeks to 3 March, down from 10.5% in the four weeks to 4 February and 18.9% in the four weeks to 7 January.
First Group also said a new managing director for Avanti had also been appointed, Andy Mellors.
The previous boss left last September.
| Re: Avanti Eye-Watering Ticket To Wales & Dinner Cancelled Posted by grahame at 07:05, 12th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Already posted rlsewhere this morning
I will move and merge when I get a chance / decent connection that allows admin. This is a link to a different press article covering the same story though, so very much worth adding in for completeness
| Re: Travelling with Avanti West Coast is such a drag. Posted by Ralph Ayres at 20:55, 11th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
...and unwisely building up expectations given that they know they are struggling to provide anything like a decent basic service. A refund after the event will be little consolation.
They currently say on their website "From 3 to 24 December, we’ll be serving our festive menu in First Class". Granted there's a tiny footnote that "*all items on our menus are subject to availability" but no real warning that it might all go belly up for anyone who doesn't keep a close eye on what's going on in the rail industry and might even have heard about problems getting to Manchester but wouldn't associate that with travelling to north Wales. Abandoning pre-travel First Class ticket sales and going for on-train upgrades only until things improve might have been better PR-wise to avoid articles like this, given how ridiculously expensive full rate First Class fares will seem even if most people will be able to find cheaper fares or would decide not to go First Class.
| Re: Avanti Eye-Watering Ticket To Wales & Dinner Cancelled Posted by ChrisB at 20:49, 11th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Already posted rlsewhere this morning
| Avanti Eye-Watering Ticket To Wales & Dinner Cancelled Posted by CJB666 at 20:46, 11th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rail-passenger-hits-avanti-over-164216612.html
| Re: Travelling with Avanti West Coast is such a drag. Posted by TaplowGreen at 19:35, 11th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Eye watering fare. Atrocious service.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/11/rail-passenger-avanti-west-coast-train-ticket-brighton-bangor
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/11/rail-passenger-avanti-west-coast-train-ticket-brighton-bangor
Really takes the cake.
| Travelling with Avanti West Coast is such a drag. Posted by JayMac at 16:58, 11th December 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Eye watering fare. Atrocious service.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/11/rail-passenger-avanti-west-coast-train-ticket-brighton-bangor
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 22:43, 7th October 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-10-07/avanti-contract-extension-a-slap-in-the-face
The decision to renew Avanti West Coast's contract short term is a "slap in the face", the train drivers' union has said.
The Government extended the train provider's contract by six months, giving them the deadline to improve after saying it had provided an "unacceptable" service to rail users.
The Government extended the train provider's contract by six months, giving them the deadline to improve after saying it had provided an "unacceptable" service to rail users.
and many more reports such as https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63169383
Rail firm Avanti West Coast has been warned it needs to "drastically improve services" after its contract to run the London to Glasgow route was extended by just six months.
The decision means it will continue to run services until next April, the Department for Transport said.
Avanti has come under fire after slashing its timetables in August, with trains between London and Manchester the worst affected.
It had apologised for the problems.
Transport Secretary Anne-Marie Trevelyan said services on Avanti have been "unacceptable".
"While the company has taken positive steps to get more trains moving, it must do more to deliver certainty of service to its passengers," she said.
"We have agreed a six-month extension to Avanti to assess whether it is capable of running this crucial route to a standard passengers deserve and expect."
The decision means it will continue to run services until next April, the Department for Transport said.
Avanti has come under fire after slashing its timetables in August, with trains between London and Manchester the worst affected.
It had apologised for the problems.
Transport Secretary Anne-Marie Trevelyan said services on Avanti have been "unacceptable".
"While the company has taken positive steps to get more trains moving, it must do more to deliver certainty of service to its passengers," she said.
"We have agreed a six-month extension to Avanti to assess whether it is capable of running this crucial route to a standard passengers deserve and expect."
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by IndustryInsider at 09:46, 10th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have to travel to Manchester soon. Given the stories I have heard on services out of Euston, I have opted not to go via London and booked a through Cross Country Voyager from Reading. Probably the least worst option!
Actually quite a good option these days. Usually an 8-car, sometimes a 9-car or even a 10. Some start at Reading so finding an unreserved seat is easy and it’s still an hourly service to Manchester…I assume you’ll have a sear reservation anyway though? And the one good thing about XC continued running of a very decimated service is that cancellations due to crew shortages are very low.
CrossCountry continue to offer up a very poor service on many of their routes, but Reading to Manchester is probably the best it’s ever been. Just avoid the 17:27 back on a weekday as that is only booked for a 4-car!
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Mark A at 21:13, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Aaaah. Crosscountry and Sundays. I've such fond memories some years back of waiting on Leeds station early on a Sunday morning as three consecutive Crosscountry trains were announced as cancelled* ten minutes before their arrival time... that for that forthcoming trip I've booked a return via LNER, Kings Cross and GWR.
Mark
*Over-running engineering works, Crosscountry were running straight to Doncaster, missing out Leeds, and would have been available via a change out of an LNER service - but no one thought to tell the waiting passengers.
On finding out, I elected to abandon the considerable crowd that was finally directed to a southbound ECML train and returned to Bristol via Manchester, Crewe and then Hereford, the ticket thankfully being accepted on explanation by all train managers en route, bless 'em. :-)
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 20:14, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Or if going left field ...
Via a Nottingham (change) on EMR
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by JayMac at 19:44, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I may have chosen LNER to Leeds then TPE.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 19:17, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have to travel to Manchester soon. Given the stories I have heard on services out of Euston, I have opted not to go via London and booked a through Cross Country Voyager from Reading. Probably the least worst option!
Transport for Wales via Newport?
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by bobm at 18:39, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I have to travel to Manchester soon. Given the stories I have heard on services out of Euston, I have opted not to go via London and booked a through Cross Country Voyager from Reading. Probably the least worst option!
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by rogerw at 13:02, 9th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
A right fiasco on my crowded train from Glasgow yesterday. When Avanti decided to reduce there services they cancelled all existing seat reservations, although the passengers were not told of this. Not a problem in itself. However they then decided to re-introduce seat reservations on the remaining services without any reference to the previous reservations resulting in numerous examples of two passengers holding a reservation for the same seat. Bad customer service.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 17:23, 7th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the BBC
Ministers could withdraw Avanti's contract to run services on the West Coast Mainline when it comes up for renewal in October.
Transport minister Trudy Harrison told the House of Commons all options remained on the table.
She said withdrawing the contract was one option, and "all of the implications of that" were under consideration.
Transport minister Trudy Harrison told the House of Commons all options remained on the table.
She said withdrawing the contract was one option, and "all of the implications of that" were under consideration.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 22:09, 6th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I agree that the DfT will say that. And yet I wonder if that suggests that any putting of staffing right has to be 100% commercially lead, without consideration to social or environmental issues. If all the staff at Tidmouth (for example) were to quit, under this approach would the DfT simply allow the line to close, or at the least have a very limited service without morning departures or evening arrivals, staffed from Vicarstown?
Well ... many a fictitious suggestion becomes stranger in fact. After my Sodor example, look what's happening on the Isle of Wight:
Tuesday 06th September 2022
Island Line services unable to run tomorrow between 0900 – 1900
Rail replacement buses operate between Ryde and Shanklin
South Western Railway would like to apologise to our customers on the Isle of Wight that, as a result of staff sickness, the Island Line will not be operating tomorrow (Wednesday 7th September) between 9am and 7pm. A rail replacement bus service will be provided during these hours between Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin and a separate minibus shuttle will run between Ryde Pierhead and Ryde Esplanade. There will also be a minibus serving the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.
Island Line services unable to run tomorrow between 0900 – 1900
Rail replacement buses operate between Ryde and Shanklin
South Western Railway would like to apologise to our customers on the Isle of Wight that, as a result of staff sickness, the Island Line will not be operating tomorrow (Wednesday 7th September) between 9am and 7pm. A rail replacement bus service will be provided during these hours between Ryde Esplanade and Shanklin and a separate minibus shuttle will run between Ryde Pierhead and Ryde Esplanade. There will also be a minibus serving the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Electric train at 15:43, 5th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just to mention that the Guardian’s take on this is that he was fired by FirstGroup
The headline does, but then the article states he has decided to stand down.
Yep, he was pushed…..
"We have left a loaded revolver in your desk top draw"
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by ChrisB at 08:51, 5th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just to mention that the Guardian’s take on this is that he was fired by FirstGroup
The headline does, but then the article states he has decided to stand down.
Yep, he was pushed…..
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Electric train at 05:56, 5th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
I agree that the DfT will say that. And yet I wonder if that suggests that any putting of staffing right has to be 100% commercially lead, without consideration to social or environmental issues. If all the staff at Tidmouth (for example) were to quit, under this approach would the DfT simply allow the line to close, or at the least have a very limited service without morning departures or evening arrivals, staffed from Vicarstown?
I suspect that recruitment would be allowed in that case, remembering that closure is politically unacceptable. They might insist that transfers from other depots be encouraged rather than new staff.
SOME new recruitment is unavoidable but I suspect that pressure is to minimise this.
The 'Shaps' hence Government and DfT mantra would be "modernise your working practices ToC and NR" I cannot see the policy change under the new "undemocratically anointed" PM
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by broadgage at 02:49, 5th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
I agree that the DfT will say that. And yet I wonder if that suggests that any putting of staffing right has to be 100% commercially lead, without consideration to social or environmental issues. If all the staff at Tidmouth (for example) were to quit, under this approach would the DfT simply allow the line to close, or at the least have a very limited service without morning departures or evening arrivals, staffed from Vicarstown?
I suspect that recruitment would be allowed in that case, remembering that closure is politically unacceptable. They might insist that transfers from other depots be encouraged rather than new staff.
SOME new recruitment is unavoidable but I suspect that pressure is to minimise this.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Ollie at 01:27, 5th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just to mention that the Guardian’s take on this is that he was fired by FirstGroup
The headline does, but then the article states he has decided to stand down.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by ChrisB at 16:53, 4th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just to mention that the Guardian’s take on this is that he was fired by FirstGroup
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by GBM at 09:21, 4th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
I agree that the DfT will say that. And yet I wonder if that suggests that any putting of staffing right has to be 100% commercially lead, without consideration to social or environmental issues. If all the staff at Tidmouth (for example) were to quit, under this approach would the DfT simply allow the line to close, or at the least have a very limited service without morning departures or evening arrivals, staffed from Vicarstown?
Nothing to with the Government/Treasury; entirely down to the ToC!
Yeah, right.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 09:11, 4th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
I agree that the DfT will say that. And yet I wonder if that suggests that any putting of staffing right has to be 100% commercially lead, without consideration to social or environmental issues. If all the staff at Tidmouth (for example) were to quit, under this approach would the DfT simply allow the line to close, or at the least have a very limited service without morning departures or evening arrivals, staffed from Vicarstown?
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Electric train at 08:26, 4th September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the Plymouth and Cornwall board
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
I would have thought TOC's would be recruiting staff now the pandemic is easing.
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
Doesn't that mount to the same thing?
In political terms no .................. DfT or the Minster and Secretary of State cannot be seen to involving themselves in the operation of a business
In practical terms yes
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by ellendune at 20:48, 3rd September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the Plymouth and Cornwall board
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
I would have thought TOC's would be recruiting staff now the pandemic is easing.
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
Doesn't that mount to the same thing?
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Electric train at 18:53, 3rd September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the Plymouth and Cornwall board
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
I would have thought TOC's would be recruiting staff now the pandemic is easing.
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
Not so much a block on recruitment the DfT will say it has to be self-funding ie for revenue or other cost savings
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by ellendune at 11:06, 3rd September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From the Plymouth and Cornwall board
I would have thought TOC's would be recruiting staff now the pandemic is easing.
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
A friend of mine has been waiting just over 12 months for the final driver manager interview, but is feeling that's all been scrapped.
Presumably the DfT is blocking recruitment in anticipation of a very slimmed down railway?
That might explain the Phil's resignation. If he was told by DfT that he cannot recruit, but can't say so and he therefore follows DfT's line when they try and blame it on the unions. Why stay and take the grief for being the DfT's instrument to preside over the dismantling of what he had helped build up over many years at Virgin?
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by JayMac at 19:04, 2nd September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
A precursor to an Operator of Last Resort takeover of the West Coast franchise perhaps?
Or maybe parachuting in someone else from First Group to attempt to sort out the problems at Avanti. *paging Mark Hopwood*

Phil Whittingham was a twenty year Virgin veteran. Just two years with First Group and he's seemingly had enough.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by a-driver at 18:34, 2nd September 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
The Managing Direct of Avanti West Coast has quit today.
I’m guessing his position had become untenable
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by IndustryInsider at 13:36, 31st August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Meanwhile an unhealthy percentage of TfW trains along the North Wales coast are currently 2-car units leading to crowding and people unable to board. Lots of new trains being tested along the route but this summer has been pretty miserable for many.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 06:24, 31st August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
From The Leader
LEADERS across the region are calling on the UK Rail Minister to safeguard at least one direct train per day in each direction between North Wales, Chester, and London.
Growth Track 360 is a cross-border rail campaign group made up of leaders across North Wales, the Wirral and Cheshire West and Chester which calls for substantial rail investment to enable growth in the cross-border economy of the North Wales and Mersey Dee region.
Currently, only one direct service per day each way will run between London and Chester (to Wrexham) whilst a shuttle service is linking Holyhead and Crewe. Direct trains are continuing to run at reduced frequencies between London, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh.
Growth Track 360 is a cross-border rail campaign group made up of leaders across North Wales, the Wirral and Cheshire West and Chester which calls for substantial rail investment to enable growth in the cross-border economy of the North Wales and Mersey Dee region.
Currently, only one direct service per day each way will run between London and Chester (to Wrexham) whilst a shuttle service is linking Holyhead and Crewe. Direct trains are continuing to run at reduced frequencies between London, Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham and Edinburgh.
Pessimistic view from the (only, so far) commentator
You will not get improvement , Agenda 2030 does not want you to travel , be happy you are allowed out at all .
Hmmm ... out of my area; I think of North Wales to London through services as being the vestige of Holyhead to London boat trains - indeed timing has been such that they connect with the night boat, for example. Boat use has been made less than comfortable for foot passengers with the use of buses from the station terminal into the bowels of the ship and dodging cars to the staircases. Seat for everyone on the bus? Not a hope!
Something of a pattern in dumbing down service to Ireland over the years. Don't get me going on Fishguard's through trains, connections and station at Rosslare, or getting from Dublin Port into Dublin itself and onto connections to your final destination.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Electric train at 06:54, 19th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Reading between the lines ... one has to wonder if we're headed for an operator or last resort who might continue to run a reduced timetable on a permanent basis, with no need for drivers to ever volunteer for rest day working, or ever visit Chester, Telford or Bangor ever again.
Why? We're headed (so they say) for GBR, with whatever that implies for labour relations and contract terms. But before that, there are negotiations going on at the moment for a new contract (the current ERMA was extended for six months to the end of September).
So a certain amount of posturing is going on, with the current "pigs ear" performance level (and "losing the mess room") giving DfT some ammunition. I suspect Avanti on their side feel particularly miffed by the forced change of their contract into EMA/ERMA/NRC/whatever, because they had more to lose than the other TOCs: viz. a longer-term arrangement that led towards running HS2 services.
OLR has been dragged into the negotiating room, and not just as a threatening presence: "do you want this menial management contract in place of your showy "partnership" agreement, or would you rather not bother" is a meaningful commercial question.
GBR would not automatically overwrite the contract of franchised operator until the franchise end, in the lead up to GBR becoming a legal entity the DfT and the GBR development team (NR, TOC's DfT) are working on the new operator contracts. There will be more 'management' type extensions to existing franchisees until GBR is established legally.
The Avanti West Coast just goes to show the flaws in the franchise system an operator has to overbid, over promise and the DfT expect an unrealistic income.
Most if not all ToC have a shortage of Drivers, even within Network Rail there are critical shortages of staff in certain areas
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by stuving at 10:52, 18th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Reading between the lines ... one has to wonder if we're headed for an operator or last resort who might continue to run a reduced timetable on a permanent basis, with no need for drivers to ever volunteer for rest day working, or ever visit Chester, Telford or Bangor ever again.
Why? We're headed (so they say) for GBR, with whatever that implies for labour relations and contract terms. But before that, there are negotiations going on at the moment for a new contract (the current ERMA was extended for six months to the end of September).
So a certain amount of posturing is going on, with the current "pigs ear" performance level (and "losing the mess room") giving DfT some ammunition. I suspect Avanti on their side feel particularly miffed by the forced change of their contract into EMA/ERMA/NRC/whatever, because they had more to lose than the other TOCs: viz. a longer-term arrangement that led towards running HS2 services.
OLR has been dragged into the negotiating room, and not just as a threatening presence: "do you want this menial management contract in place of your showy "partnership" agreement, or would you rather not bother" is a meaningful commercial question.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by bobm at 07:02, 18th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
…and just to add to their woes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-62583595
Passengers were stranded in a locked station after their train arrived 100 minutes late, an MP has said.
About 30 passengers got off the Avanti West Coast service from London Euston to Glasgow at Oxenholme in Cumbria on Tuesday to find the station closed.
Passenger Jonathan Gilmore said it had been due in at 22:20 BST but was late. Westmorland Lib Dem MP Tim Farron said it was an "unacceptable farce".
Avanti has apologised and said it was investigating what happened.
(Continues)
About 30 passengers got off the Avanti West Coast service from London Euston to Glasgow at Oxenholme in Cumbria on Tuesday to find the station closed.
Passenger Jonathan Gilmore said it had been due in at 22:20 BST but was late. Westmorland Lib Dem MP Tim Farron said it was an "unacceptable farce".
Avanti has apologised and said it was investigating what happened.
(Continues)
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by grahame at 06:55, 18th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
A lot of talk coming out of Avanti West Coast that the company are in talks with the DfT to be taken over by the Operator of Last Resort (OLR).
Industrial relations between employees and employer are at rock bottom, services being cut, performance nose diving, standards plummeting…. seems very much like the writing is on the wall.
Industrial relations between employees and employer are at rock bottom, services being cut, performance nose diving, standards plummeting…. seems very much like the writing is on the wall.
From the Daily Mail ... (here)
Trains will only operate between 7.30am and 6.30pm on both strike days and will start later than normal on the following mornings. Here is a breakdown of each operator's plan for tomorrow and Saturday:
Avanti West Coast The operator has been running a reduced timetable since Sunday due to many drivers no longer volunteering to work on their rest days for extra pay. On strike days there will be one train per hour in both directions between London Euston and each of Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Preston. A limited service will operate to Glasgow. Several areas will not be served, such as Blackpool, Edinburgh, North Wales and Shrewsbury.
Avanti West Coast The operator has been running a reduced timetable since Sunday due to many drivers no longer volunteering to work on their rest days for extra pay. On strike days there will be one train per hour in both directions between London Euston and each of Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Preston. A limited service will operate to Glasgow. Several areas will not be served, such as Blackpool, Edinburgh, North Wales and Shrewsbury.
Reading between the lines ... one has to wonder if we're headed for an operator or last resort who might continue to run a reduced timetable on a permanent basis, with no need for drivers to ever volunteer for rest day working, or ever visit Chester, Telford or Bangor ever again.
| Re: Avanti West Coast Posted by Oxonhutch at 22:17, 17th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Doesn't surprise me at all if this is the case. Since Virgin lost the West Coast franchise, the service has gone down hill tremendously to the extent that I now choose to travel with Cross Country on my journeys up north. Virgin knew how to run a transport business; their first class was like turning left entering the aircraft and was a proper Business Class experience - sadly gone. I hope the OLR can emulate their colleagues on the East Coast route and up their game. I would love to use LNER, but unfortunately they don't serve my required destinations (mid Lancashire) but I have looked at routes via Leeds nonetheless.
| Avanti West Coast Posted by a-driver at 20:48, 17th August 2022 | ![]() ![]() ![]() |
A lot of talk coming out of Avanti West Coast that the company are in talks with the DfT to be taken over by the Operator of Last Resort (OLR).
Industrial relations between employees and employer are at rock bottom, services being cut, performance nose diving, standards plummeting…. seems very much like the writing is on the wall.














