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Marlow Branch Line, Marlow Donkey - merged posts, ongoing discussion
 
Marlow Branch Line, Marlow Donkey - merged posts, ongoing discussion
Posted by grahame at 20:24, 10th July 2023
 
https://www.nrmfriends.org.uk/post/the-marlow-donkey

On 28th June 1873 the Great Marlow Railway Company’s line opened for passenger traffic. At two miles and 61 chains long, it became the branch from Bourne End to Marlow, Buckinghamshire. Marlow station was then named Great Marlow and Bourne End was Marlow Road. Marlow Road became Bourne End in 1874 and Great Marlow stayed as such until 1899 when the “Great” was removed.

[snip]

Re: The history of the Marlow Donkey
Posted by Oxonhutch at 17:26, 11th July 2023
 
Must have been the shortest of all the UK 'Great' railway companies

New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by BBM at 19:38, 18th November 2024
 
Geoff travels on the branch with GWR MD Mark Hopwood who grew up locally - subjects covered include the line's token system and the original site of Marlow Station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWf8LkRtgX0


Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:09, 18th November 2024
 
That is absolutely brilliant, BBM - thanks for posting that link! 

I commend this clip to all of our members and readers - and with thanks to Mark Hopwood, for his personal input.

My paternal grandparents used to live in Bourne End, and when we visited, I used to travel on the Marlow Donkey.

CfN.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by JayMac at 21:07, 18th November 2024
 
And more generally, I highly recommend subscribing to Geoff Marshall's YouTube channel. Always great content.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 11:51, 19th November 2024
 
Seeing that peak-time walk between trains for Marlow passengers, thank goodness the Bourne End buffer stops are reasonably close to the end of the rails**.

Mark

** Unfortunate that buffer stops are not a lot closer to High Wycombe. The current arrangement, it's almost as if it's a ghost from the last years of the through route, when, rather than Marlow being a branch and served from the bay, trains to the town ran to and from Maidenhead using one of Bourne End's through platforms, & High Wycombe - Bourne End being run as a shuttle.

So, the useful through route now demanded a change of trains, but I'm sure that the connections for through travellers were not arranged to inconvenience them. Does anyone have a Western Region passenger timetable for, say, 1968 or '69?

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 12:04, 19th November 2024
 
Bourne End personal trivia. The area it serves is peppered with idiosyncracies, and not only on Mr Hopwood's railway.

It's the location used by a travelling companion for a one-off journey to work in London, and they were hopeful that on crossing the concourse at Paddington Station that they'd be asked to complete a travel survey - something that was slightly in vogue at the time.

If they *had* been asked about modes of travel during their journey to work, rather than the usual "Cycle to the station, train to Waterloo and walk", it would have been "Funicular railway, then, electric powered canoe launch down and across the river, walk to Bourne End station, then onto a train, one change onto the GW main line to Paddington, finally Bakerloo line."

6 changes and 5 modes, a couple of which would have stretched any travel survey's tick boxes.

All on time too. :-)

Mark

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:04, 19th November 2024
 

Does anyone have a Western Region passenger timetable for, say, 1968 or '69?


Cue grahame? 

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 18:43, 19th November 2024
 

Does anyone have a Western Region passenger timetable for, say, 1968 or '69?


Cue grahame? 

I have a 1967/68 ... which I will upload after yet ANOTHER Town Council meeting tonight - second of three this week!

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:49, 19th November 2024
 
There you are, Mark A: I'm just rolling on the floor laughing now.  I simply knew grahame would have it! 


Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 20:27, 19th November 2024
 







Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 13:17, 20th November 2024
 
Thanks for digging those out.

Soooo... the later of those two timetables, Marlow & High Wycombe's through services to Paddington have gone. High Wycombe to Maidenhead is now a mixture of through trains & others involving a minimum 15 minute wait at Bourne End.

Saturdays, a thin but somewhat sensible timetable for High Wycombe to Bourne End, several of which run direct.

Sunday, no service High Wycombe to Bourne End (as previously). That part of the line would close at the start of May 1970.

Closing lines can become habit-forming. You wonder how close Marlow came to losing its railway.

Mark

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by IndustryInsider at 13:24, 20th November 2024
 
It's one of those that would be a very useful link to have now...but the cost of reinstating it isn't worth it.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by ChrisB at 13:41, 20th November 2024
 
The line of route has now got housing on it....

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 14:19, 20th November 2024
 
Soooo... the later of those two timetables, Marlow & High Wycombe's through services to Paddington have gone. High Wycombe to Maidenhead is now a mixture of through trains & others involving a minimum 15 minute wait at Bourne End.

Doing a Thurso ... it's actually the same same train with those 15 minutes taken up at Bourne End by the train carrying in to Marlow and coming back from there to carry on.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by IndustryInsider at 14:25, 20th November 2024
 
The line of route has now got housing on it....

Yes, that was my point about the cost of reinstatement being too high.  Much of it, especially at the Wycombe end, has been obliterated by housing and roads and there's no sensible prospect of realignment given the topography and general density of settlements and roads in the area.  Doesn't stop it occasionally being mentioned though!

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 15:48, 20th November 2024
 
Fast forward nearly 55 years to 2024, and does a bus service parallel the route?

Yes, and seven days a week too, though it doesn't quite serve High Wycombe Station. It's not an atrocious service, hourly clockface weekdays north of Bourne End and hourly clockface on Sundays. Three buses deployed to the route on weekdays. End of service isn't particularly late, mind, but it has this in common with very very many bus services.

Mark

https://bustimes.org/services/37-high-wycombe-maidenhead?date=2024-11-20&service=37&service=37A&service=37B

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 16:01, 20th November 2024
 
Thirteen (or fourteen) minutes by train, but over thirty (35 actually) by bus.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Oxonhutch at 20:29, 21st November 2024
 
Can someone confirm the Henley - Marlow - Thames Path 'easement' arrangements on this and the Henley branch that allows one to travel via one and return by the other, facilitating that Thames walk (with a nice pub in the middle I believe). I have looked it up in the Routeing Guide (Table E) but have drawn a blank.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by JayMac at 20:57, 21st November 2024
 
Not an easement, but interavailability for the Off Peak Day Return to allow walking the Thames Path.

Buy your Off Peak Day Return to furthest point from your origin station. The destination choices are Henley, Marlow and Windsor & Eton Central.

Not widely publicised but I believe the interavailability is still valid.


Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Oxonhutch at 21:15, 21st November 2024
 
Not widely publicised but I believe the interavailability is still valid.

Any idea where that is documented?

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 21:49, 21st November 2024
 
Not widely publicised but I believe the interavailability is still valid.

Any idea where that is documented?

Would expect it at https://www.gwr.com/stations-and-destinations/travel-inspiration/blogs/historic-henley-and-marlow-walk but it isn't.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Oxonhutch at 23:14, 21st November 2024
 
It doesn't say that the ticket arrangement is in place.  Is it entirely informal ?

I was going to post the example on Geoffs website, but did not want to do so until I have absolute proof that I am not peddling myths.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 09:08, 22nd November 2024
 
It doesn't say that the ticket arrangement is in place.  Is it entirely informal ?

I was going to post the example on Geoffs website, but did not want to do so until I have absolute proof that I am not peddling myths.

We have previously searched from the forum, but linked documents seem obscure and no longer current.  It is not in the routing guide easement list where I would have expected to find something similar to this example from elsewhere:

700784 Manual

Holders of tickets from Kyle of Lochalsh to either Glasgow or Edinburgh, may join Scotrail only operated trains at Mallaig. They will need to make their own arrangements to travel between Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig, as railway tickets are not valid on bus and ferry connections between the two locations. This manual easement will not operate in online journey planning systems.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Oxonhutch at 09:39, 22nd November 2024
 
It is not in the routing guide easement list where I would have expected to find something similar to this example from elsewhere:

Thank you Graham. It was where I first went looking too.

Could someone with social media savvy (and that is definitely not me!) reach out to GWR and see if this well thought-out arrangement is still in place and if so, where it is documented. Good intentions are of no defence if one was to meet the autonomous "we-are-revenue-protection" brigade. I have sadly seen them in action.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 09:40, 22nd November 2024
 
The Kyle / Mallaig easement might be linked to the need to provide for passengers on certain ferries that may change their port of arrival between Mallaig and e.g. Uig on Skye for various reasons, though in that case it might be expected to see Oban on that list as well, though I don't know the ferries well enough to be aware if Oban's a bit of a variable too. The trains aside, it must be a bit of an issue if you have a vehicle parked up at Mallaig and your ferry decides to head for Uig...

Mark

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 09:46, 22nd November 2024
 
It is not in the routing guide easement list where I would have expected to find something similar to this example from elsewhere:

Thank you Graham. It was where I first went looking too.

Could someone with social media savvy (and that is definitely not me!) reach out to GWR and see if this well thought-out arrangement is still in place and if so, where it is documented. Good intentions are of no defence if one was to meet the autonomous "we-are-revenue-protection" brigade. I have sadly seen them in action.

I don't post to Twitter any more but have just asked what is purportedly their Bluesky account. (A reply might not be forthcoming as allegedly many TOCs are awaiting an update to whatever software it is that they use to coordinate their various social media activities)

Mark

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by stuving at 09:59, 22nd November 2024
 
It doesn't say that the ticket arrangement is in place.  Is it entirely informal ?

I was going to post the example on Geoffs website, but did not want to do so until I have absolute proof that I am not peddling myths.

This is all very old-fashioned - defined in the National Fares Manual and nowhere else. According to the RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide, there is a list of such interavailability concessions in the Manual (and probably another list for Scotrail). This list was made available there "with permission from ATOC" in 2018. There are a lot more of them than you think! The relevant one reads:

Origin/destination shown on ticketHenley-on-Thames
Also available to travel to/fromBourne End, Cookham, Furze Platt, Marlow, Shiplake, Wargrave or Windsor & Eton Central
Inter-availability applies to these ticket types and/or tickets issued from:Off-Peak Day Returns only. Ticket must be
issued to the furthest point.
TOC fare setter (to whom any enquiries regarding this interavailability arrangement should be directed)Great Western Railway


Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by grahame at 10:42, 22nd November 2024
 
Thank you stuving - I have mirrored the file for members at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/mirror/interavailable_origin_dest.pdf

I actually used the concession on 19th June 2021 - from Melksham, ticket to Marlow but travelled out to Henley. I was prepared to explain my ticket if asked between Twyford and Henley, but there was no ticket check and I can't report of the awareness of staff or the currentness of the information in the ATOC document.  It almost feels like a disappointment when using an unusual ticket arrangement to not be checked.

Re: New Marlow Branch video from Geoff Marshall
Posted by Mark A at 13:25, 22nd November 2024
 
... have just asked what is purportedly their Bluesky account. (A reply might not be forthcoming as allegedly many TOCs are awaiting an update to whatever software it is that they use to coordinate their various social media activities)

They were already gathering a smatter of attention and this morning have responded to all that they're not quite ready to field responses via Bluesky yet. They're also in the process of sorting the domain handle thing.

Mark


https://bsky.app/profile/gwruk.bsky.social/post/3lbjobxgpf32w



Marlow Branch Line, Marlow Donkey - merged posts, ongoing discussion
Posted by TaplowGreen at 06:19, 23rd August 2025
 
Alterations to services between Bourne End and Marlow

Due to a fault with the signalling system between Bourne End and Marlow the line is closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be terminated at and started back from Bourne End.

Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 24/08/25.

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by grahame at 07:20, 23rd August 2025
 
Alterations to services between Bourne End and Marlow
Due to a fault with the signalling system between Bourne End and Marlow the line is closed.
Train services running to and from these stations will be terminated at and started back from Bourne End. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 24/08/25.
Customer Advice
We have taxis in place to operate between Bourne End and Marlow, connecting out of trains from Maidenhead. Taxis will also operate between Marlow and Bourne End approximately 10 minutes EARLIER than the train they are replacing with a view to connectig into trains from Bourne End to Maidenhead. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee connections with train services.
-
We're sorry for the delay to your journey.
-
We will update this message with more information when we have it.
Further Information
An update will follow within the next 2 hours.
Customers are requested to check the stations Onward Travel Information poster and wait for replacement road transport at the designated stop. Customers are advised that the replacement road transport may run later than the advertised train times owing to the additional time taken by road between stations and the time required for loading and unloading at each stop.
If you require further information please speak to our staff at the station or on the train, use the Customer Help Point, message us on X @GWRHelp or call National Rail Enquiries on 03457 484 950.

If you arrive at your destination 15 or more minutes late because your GWR train was delayed or cancelled, you can claim Delay Repay compensation. Please keep your ticket and visit GWR.com/DelayRepay
Last Updated:23/08/2025 07:00

I don't know the details of the "signalling issue" ... but I muse that modern technology adds to how long things take to fix when there's a problem. I also muse as to whether other modern constraints prevent a unit being locked on the branch-off-a-branch with one train in operation on it, stop and proceed at crossings if necessary, and passengers transferring around the platform end at Bourne End.

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by TaplowGreen at 08:30, 23rd August 2025
 
It's been ongoing since yesterday morning.


Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Ralph Ayres at 10:42, 23rd August 2025
 
I don't know the details of the "signalling issue" ... but I muse that modern technology adds to how long things take to fix when there's a problem. I also muse as to whether other modern constraints prevent a unit being locked on the branch-off-a-branch with one train in operation on it, stop and proceed at crossings if necessary, and passengers transferring around the platform end at Bourne End.
That's how they do it during rush hours to allow a more frequent service. Trouble is it relies on having a second train and crew which may well not be available or cost-effective at short notice. They also probably don't want to be worrying about trains using that section of line while fixing the fault (track circuit, axle counter?).

Still no service expected until Monday morning, which does seem a very long time.  I suppose it's possible that some of the technology is non-standard so not an off-the-shelf component, though I don't think they still use a single line token machine where something might break and need welding!

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by ChrisB at 18:26, 23rd August 2025
 
BBQ Sunday, don't forget!

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Electric train at 07:02, 24th August 2025
 
I don't know the details of the "signalling issue" ... but I muse that modern technology adds to how long things take to fix when there's a problem. I also muse as to whether other modern constraints prevent a unit being locked on the branch-off-a-branch with one train in operation on it, stop and proceed at crossings if necessary, and passengers transferring around the platform end at Bourne End.

The Maidenhead - Bourne End is Token Block system using BR-W Tyers No9 tokens (each token is engraved with the section name) which need to be released at the commencement of the section and placed and the end of the section in a token exchange machine at each end of the line, this clears the signals / locks points so only one train is in the section (Maidenhead - Bourne End) possession of the token is the Drives authority

The Bourne End - Marlow is controlled by a Train staff system the Train Staff (this is basically a keyed rod ladled with the line name) is released from a ground frame at Bourne End the release of the  Train Staff locks the points at platform 1 Bourne End this traps the train in that section, the removal of the Train Staff allows the Token system on the Maidenhead - Bourne End section to allow and train to enter that section and that how the peak hour service operates.

The normal day time service requires the token to placed in the token machine at Bourne End and the Train Staff to be removed and the reveres for the return.

It is a Victorian system, very reliable in terms of safety of trains and in performance, the systems is operated multiple times a day every day of the week. 

It is possible given its uniqueness in the area the local Signal Maintenance team may not have all the spare parts or give that it is a very mechanical system some parts may need repairs done in the workshop

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Oxonhutch at 09:35, 24th August 2025
 
They should contact the local heritage railways around them. They might have spare parts they need right away.

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by grahame at 09:59, 24th August 2025
 
They should contact the local heritage railways around them. They might have spare parts they need right away.

In olden days, a work around may have been found by using a pilotman. Of course, we don't know what the problem is, and these days it would need to be a pilotperson.

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Oxonhutch at 10:32, 24th August 2025
 
... and these days it would need to be a pilotperson.

The only job on the railway where they must leave the railway premises immediately that their shift finishes [and go to the pub].

The last part might not actually be in the rule book

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by grahame at 10:44, 24th August 2025
 
... and these days it would need to be a pilotperson.

The only job on the railway where they must leave the railway premises immediately that their shift finishes

I can see that could be a severe issue if they finish in Bourne End and aren't allowed on the train back to Maidenhead.   Don't suppose any could afford to live in Marlow!

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Electric train at 17:37, 24th August 2025
 
They should contact the local heritage railways around them. They might have spare parts they need right away.

In olden days, a work around may have been found by using a pilotman. Of course, we don't know what the problem is, and these days it would need to be a pilotperson.

The last time there was a problem with the token machine a few years ago a Network Rail Pilotman / woman was used.  the problem is not the Token system when I used the train Friday the Driver did the token exchange so its either the Train Staff and / or points at Bourne End for Marlow branch

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 17:37, 24th August 2025
 

...Don't suppose any could afford to live in Marlow! ...


My paternal parents' bungalow in Bourne End, from 'rightmove': https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/sl8/west-ridge.html

CfN 

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by ChrisB at 19:02, 24th August 2025
 
Line reported open by GWR at 1531 on Twitter

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by TaplowGreen at 21:33, 24th August 2025
 
Line reported open by GWR at 1531 on Twitter

Journeycheck still reporting it closed at 1848......let's see what the morning brings......

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Oxonhutch at 21:56, 24th August 2025
 
Looking at Google Maps I see that the points at Bourne End are now sporting new electric point motors. Are these part of the problem, having replaced the Victorian aged (and quite reliable) mechanical ground frame?

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Electric train at 07:00, 25th August 2025
 
Looking at Google Maps I see that the points at Bourne End are now sporting new electric point motors. Are these part of the problem, having replaced the Victorian aged (and quite reliable) mechanical ground frame?

The mechanical ground frame was replaced with electric point machines and point position signals in 2008 see page 5 of http://www.mdrs.org.uk/documents/donkey120.pdf

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Oxonhutch at 08:27, 25th August 2025
 
Thank you for that ET. That is a most useful document that allows me to fully understand how it all works. I must say though that the concluding paragraph on page 6 might be somewhat prophetic.

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by Electric train at 14:03, 25th August 2025
 
Thank you for that ET. That is a most useful document that allows me to fully understand how it all works. I must say though that the concluding paragraph on page 6 might be somewhat prophetic.

Generally the service is very reliable even with the need for 2 units at each peak.  More often than not its the units that fail and not the lack of crew of lineside equipment

Re: No trains to Marlow expected until 25 August
Posted by grahame at 14:59, 25th August 2025
 
Generally the service is very reliable even with the need for 2 units at each peak.  More often than not its the units that fail and not the lack of crew of lineside equipment.

It's certainly a demonstration to me of how well GWR can do.  Looking at "On Time Trains" over the last 12 weeks, 7 days a week and including the last three days of problems at Bourne End in the stats

Bourne End - 1241st busiest - 647 entrances / exits per day. 
4% cancellations from 5568 services (58.0 services per day; 11.2 passengers per train)

Melksham - 1905th busiest - 174 entrances / exits per day.
12% cancellations from 1414 services (14.7 services per day; 11.8 passengers per train)


Marlow
Posted by Mark A at 18:19, 23rd June 2026
 
The donkey's broken down, poor creature.

Mark

Re: Marlow
Posted by Electric train at 19:01, 23rd June 2026
 
The donkey's broken down, poor creature.

Mark

It is only the Donkey, services on the former Maidenhead - High Wycombe main line are still operating a service Maidenhead - Bourne End

Re: Marlow
Posted by Mark A at 19:14, 23rd June 2026

 
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